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Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:20:00 - [1] Edited by: Sephra Star on 03/03/2008 20:23:42 Originally by: Kirjava In all honestly sometimes some people have to bite the bullet for the freedoms we have. Yes it's bad that 9/11 killed thousands and a boost in security was needed, but all these "anti-terrorism" laws blow it out of proportion. You have obviously done very little research into 911, or you would realise existing security was more than adaquate. There was no breakdown of of the existing system at all. The simple truth of the matter is that existing security was intentionally pulled to allow for maximum carnage. That included a direct order from Vice President Chenney to allow one of the planes at 50 miles out to reach its target. That is incontrovertable. NORAD was in fact ordered to stand down. The bomb sniffing dogs were suddenly and without explanation pulled out of the Trade Center 3 days before 911 presumably by the head of the World Trade Centers Security. In case you forgot who that was it was President Bush's elder brother.
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:01:00 - [2] Originally by: Kirjava Edited by: Kirjava on 03/03/2008 20:30:26 I'm British, I know 911 well in a British context in the way it effects me here. I know of the Terrosism Bills going through parlaiment, the 7/7 and attempted 21/7 bombings on the tubes, the recent alert concerning liquids on planes and things from that perspective. Have you ever heard of ther BBC? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk1WkmioQvA
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:37:00 - [3] Edited by: Sephra Star on 03/03/2008 21:38:25 If you were to watch it all the way through you would find much of it very enlightening. Particularly where the word Al Quida came from in the first place. Verifiable by the way. Better yet you get an update on the dispositions of the court cases of all the TERRORISTS that were caught in the United states that were never ever reported beyond the initial arrest stage. That part alone makes it worth it. Partularly when you consider the evidence that was used in the arrests. Vacation video's at Disney World and such. The cases were pretty much all quietly dismissed. Which is why of course noone ever heard about them again after the intitial scare campaign and arrests. Too embarrassing.
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:20:00 - [4] Edited by: Sephra Star on 03/03/2008 23:26:08 Edited by: Sephra Star on 03/03/2008 23:24:04 Originally by: PhantomMenace does this mean if i post something anti goverment on the forums then they will start monitering my actions . as for the 9/11 comment made on this thread , have you seen terrorstorm on youtube ? if not go and watch it , im convinced the bush admin were behind it , theres to many un answerd questions same as the attacks here in the crappy uk Right after Senator Wellstone was assassinated I started writing letters to elected officials. I lived in Florida at the time. I got a reply from one of Governor Bushes aides thanking me for my concerns in what sounded like a sarcastic threat informing me that my information was being forwarded to the Office of Homeland Defence. Three weeks later when my Social Security check was due it never came. I went to the Social Security Office and I was informed that I had been listed as DECEASED in the computers and that was why I had not received my check. Took me three months to proove that I was still alive. I'll check out Terror Storm. Personally I am convinced Daddy Bush (Rummy and Chenney) had more to do with it than his Dupe Son in office. An attemt at Plausable Deniability that simply did not work and only got worse the more they tried to cover it up. Have you seen this.. New World Order; September 11, 1991 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a9Syi12RJo
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:46:00 - [5] Edited by: Sephra Star on 03/03/2008 23:55:19 George Orwell "1984" 1984 -- The Power to Lead is published. Author James McGregor Burns admits: "The framers of the U.S. constitution have simply been too shrewd for us. The have outwitted us. They designed separate institutions that cannot be unified by mechanical linkages, frail bridges, tinkering. If we are to 'turn the Founders upside down' -- we must directly confront the constitutional structure they erected." 1987 -- The Secret Constitution and the Need for Constitutional Change is sponsored in part by the Rockefeller Foundation. Some thoughts of author Arthur S. Miller are: "...a pervasive system of thought control exists in the United States...the citizenry is indoctrinated by employment of the mass media and the system of public education...people are told what to think about...the old order is crumbling... Nationalism should be seen as a dangerous social disease...A new vision is required to plan and manage the future, a global vision that will transcend national boundaries and eliminate the poison of nationalistic solutions...a new Constitution is necessary." Does anyone smell PATRIOT ACT? CNN/DOBBS: W FULFILLS HIS DAD'S DREAM OFA NEW WORLD ORDER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdxI0zClV_Y
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 08:09:00 - [6] You people are awfully defensive. I did NOT suggest at all that the Government was responsable for 911. All I did was post some incontrovertable facts and a few links with historical video's and the next thing I know I am being called a conspiracy nut. If the things I posted make it sound like I was suggesting the Government was responsable then I can only assume that must be what you think, but for some reason are unwilling to admit it and prefer to scream TIN FOIL at anyone who does out of fear that someone might do it to you if you don't do it to them first. I did say that I am fully convinced there was a cover-up, but that fact is incontrovertable as well. What I did not say was exactly what was being covered up. We already know our government was fully aware of an impending attack and how it would be carried out. I personally don't think DUBYA Junior had a clue. One things for sure though. Chenney did. He was running the show while junior was ducking for cover. However, if your interested you can find some of what was covered up yourself. You don't need me to tell you. Look up the information that was in the Saudi Governments Intelligence Report that was leaked to the German Press that barely made it into limited print before being pulled from publication in the international media. Look up what our own Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee (Bob Grahm) tried very hard to divulge to us, but noone would listen because it was not part of the program you were supposed to follow.
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 08:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Sephra Star You have obviously done very little research into 911, or you would realise existing security was more than adaquate. There was no breakdown of of the existing system at all. The simple truth of the matter is that existing security was intentionally pulled to allow for maximum carnage. I dug this up just for you What I posted here was true. NORAD was ordered stand down. The explanation for it was that there was a simultanious excercise going on simulating a terrorist attack right at the exact time the real attacks occured and the excuse was they thought what was going on was part of the excercise. Funny; the same thing happened in the UK on 7/7
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 10:52:00 - [8] Edited by: Sephra Star on 04/03/2008 10:53:42 Originally by: Miss Anthropy I agree. I don't believe the US government actively planned 9/11; but I do believe they deliberately let it happen. They had enough warnings, information and intelligence to know something was going on and yet they did absolutely nothing to stop it. They didn't even scramble aircraft to bring down the planes. As far as I'm aware the US has laws on bringing down planes (or challenging them) if they deviate from their flight path too much. I'm tied between the US and the EU as to who is more corrupt. Now if you tie in what Senator Bob Grahm announced on Maninstream News that was subsequently ignored and burried about how the United States Government being fully aware that 911 was pulled off with the support of a Major Intelligence Organization from a soverign nation and that we do in fact know exactly which country was responsable, but that the information would be kept secret for at least 30 years for reasons of national security; and then couple that with the Saudi Intelligence Report that was leaked to the German Press you would then have a pretty good idea why the truth can not be made public. It is TABOO... I'll give you a hint... Remember them 5 guys that were arrested on 911 by NY Police Officers when someone called in and reported them dancing on a rooftop? They had their video camera set up prior to the planes hitting the Trade Center and got some of the best footage of the day. They were subsequently held in custody for about a year before being deported. Shhhh
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:30:00 - [9] Edited by: Sephra Star on 04/03/2008 11:36:59 Originally by: Miss Anthropy I haven't heard any of this to be honest. Got any links or sources for more info? EDIT: None of this was reported on UK news programmes, at least not that I'd seen and I watched the news avidly during and after 9/11. It used to all be easily obtainable with reputable links. Much of the truth has been systimaticly removed, or burried. You can thank GOOGLE for that. Programmed by NSA. I have not realy tried looking this stuff back up for more than a couple of years. I was one of the few active American Protesters prior to the invasion of Iraq. I was in a car accident in late 2000 and have not worked since. I was able to keep up on things full time from the very start. Kinda made it my job. It was not easy. I grew up with the internet. In other words I was using computers back in the day before there was an internet. I have watched as the internet has been systamaticly de-informationalized since 911 in an attempt to stifle the flow and freedom of information. I could give it a try though. I know so much in the way of details that so many people have never heard, or have forgotten. Like I said. It has not been easy. Knowing, but never being able to talk about it.
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:46:00 - [10] Graham Alleges a 9/11 'Coverup' http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0512-04.htm
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:47:00 - [11] Sen. Graham: Bush covered up Saudi involvement in 9/11 The former chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee tells Salon that the White House has suppressed convincing evidence that Saudi government agents aided at least two of the hijackers. http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/09/08/graham/
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:53:00 - [12] Edited by: Sephra Star on 04/03/2008 11:54:27 Foreign Intelligence Warnings What did Israel Know? http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/essay.jsp?article=essaytheytriedtowarnus
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:56:00 - [13] The 5 Dancing Video Tapers Arrested on 911
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 12:14:00 - [14] DAN RATHER Five celebrating Israeli "movers", (Mossad agents), were arrested and placed in solitary confinement for weeks after they were spotted in a white van suspected of attempting to blow up the George Washington Bridge.(On Sept 11, 2001) Israeli owner of Urban Moving Systems - Dominick Suter - then suddenly abandoned his "moving company" and fled for Israel on 9-14. Israeli "movers" and other Israelis whose actions raise serious suspicions. They are always quietly released and deported. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv2qsOcKG7w
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 12:19:00 - [15] Edited by: Sephra Star on 04/03/2008 12:19:33 NORAD EYE OPENER (VIDEO NEWS REPORT) http://truther.org/evidence/911/breakfastOfTreasonB.html
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 12:41:00 - [16] I don't have an argument. I deal with FACTS and INFORMATION I helped Bob Bowman on his campaign. He has run for President and Congress. I have had personal contact with him and corresponded numerous times with him. His credentials are impeccable... He used to fly one of those Jets in the Airforce and served as one of those pilots who protect our airspace. He says there is no way NORAD could have messed up unless they had been ordered to stand down. The guy has a PHD in Nuclear Physics and served as head of the Star Wars Program during the Reagan Administration. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6900065571556128674
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 12:49:00 - [17] Edited by: Sephra Star on 04/03/2008 12:53:08 From Fighter Pilot to Peacenik Bishop Strange Steps Along a Journey in Faith by Most Rev. Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, ret. http://www.rmbowman.com/ssn/journey.htm He picked up 44% of the vote in a Republican District in Florida 2006 Congressional. Running as a Democrat.
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:07:00 - [18] Edited by: Sephra Star on 04/03/2008 13:07:35 I gave you some links with plenty on BOWMAN. You could spend days boning up on the man without having any problem at all finding all you had the time to read, watch, and listen to. Besides you can't argue with FACTS... Also true: In sworn testimony during the 911 Commissions Hearings Transportation Secratary Mineta testified... SECRATARY MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" 2
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:37:00 - [19] You don't run for President of the United States and beat Pat Buchanon in a telivised debate as well as the vote, nor do you run for Congress against a well known and well funded entrenched encumbant and get away with falsifying such things. OPEN LETTER FROM Colonel Bob Bowman (USAF Ret) http://youtube.com/watch?v=qIL9hzRk_6s&feature=related
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:58:00 - [20] Edited by: Sephra Star on 04/03/2008 15:58:35 I was just laying in bed a moment ago and thought of my own saying for all this MUMBO JUMBO... You can argue till Doomsday (which is not that far off really) about any given single issue and at times be right and at times be wrong, but to understand the scope of 911 you have to recognize the vast array of factors at play. You may never come up with a diffinitive explanation, but you can come up with a discernable certainty regarding the the validity of generalities. There are very few people unless they are of an extreme gullable nature that would believe the official account as published by the media and the Commision, but in all my years of pouring over the facts that I could draw upon and putting them together with all the informations I have come across including the conflicting information which has often necessitated long periods of incubation to sort through it; I know beyond any reasonable doubt that my pot of stew is finally warm. What I have discovered is that you have to put as many ingrediants into the stew as you can possibly find before sampling the taste. It is only then that you can determine which ingrediants don't belong in the recipe by the trial and error of taking various ingrediants out and then retasting. You do that long enough and you may never get a perfect stew, but at some point you will get it close enough to be edible for everyone.
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:16:00 - [21] No, but I have been considering trying to get on at the local VA as a full time volunteer. My only problem is distance and transportation. I would have to live close by the hospital.
Sephra Star	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:31:00 - [22] I am curious about a particular cultural saying we have here in the United States and if it is used in Europe. We have this saying here when something is realy bad messed up. "There is something rotten in Denmark" You have that saying over there?

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